Nice Guy or Bad Boy?
“Nice guys finish last” seems to be the mantra when it comes to nice-guy-love-stories. Such tales are usually riddled with unappreciated, broken-hearted blokes who wear their hearts on their sleeves, giving it their all in every relationship, but being rejected or dumped time and time again for the simple reason that they are “too nice” or rather “too easy”.
“George” is one of these nice guys. I’ve known George almost all my life. He is a consummate gentleman – chivalrous, honest, reliable, trustworthy, loyal, generous, considerate, kind – and possesses a profound respect for women. A woman never needs to fear that he won’t call or follow through on a plan. And he won’t disappear after a few dates, or worst of all, feign romantic interest if there is none. When George is in love, he makes it known, regaling the girl with self-composed piano tunes inspired by his love or beautifully arranged mini-herb gardens used later to cook the most delicious meals or romantic late night outings under the stars.
Women love George for all his sweetness, humor and fun, but that love is usually of the platonic sort or eventually ends up as such. They look for George when their ego is in need of mending, especially after a heart break, as he is an ideal rebound lover. George has an ability to build women back up when they are at their lowest, making them feel whole, special and confident again, and unknowingly, readying them for the next brute that comes along. When the girl is ready to move on, George graciously suffers through all the cliché excuses and reasons like “I’m not ready to get serious,” “I’m too busy for a relationship right now,” “You deserve more”, etc. with the understanding of a saint. And just weeks or months later, he would discover that these women are already hitched to the next less congenial and not-so-nice guy, where those excuses and reasons given to George no longer apply, at least not for his successors.
As I reflect on George’s love life, contrasting it against the love lives of my female friends, I can’t help but wonder why women would forego nice guys like George, preferring the not-so-nice guys. On paper, George is the guy most women want, though in reality, we find ourselves chasing after the bad boys who inevitably disappoint by forgetting to call, disappearing for weeks on end or flaking on agreed-upon plans, leaving us in a perpetual state of confusion. So I must ask all of us bad-boy chasing women: Is the challenge and thrill of chasing such a man worth the frustration and disappointment?
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Bad Boys are great for weeding out all the immature shallow chicks. Thanks!
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I am a 26 year old Mexican American and preparing myself to defend my thesis and obtain my M.A. in Clinical Psychology. I have been a nice guy all my life and I am proud in being courteous and generous to other people. I am also extremely romantic when I fall in love and I do not regret in being courteous, attentive, sincere, loyal, passionate, and romantic towards another person even if nothing happens at the end. Furthermore, I am attracted to women who are secure for who they are, who want to accomplish personal goals up to their maximum potential, and who are attracted to men that are naturally courteous and sees beauty in a woman as she evolves and changes through time.
However, through studying in various areas of psychology and by conducting research on gender roles and gender stereotypes (I am a feminist since the age of 13) I have learned that the partners people choose, no matter if they are nice or hostile, are based on their childhood and teenage experiences.
In other words, women that are attracted to men that are hostile, authoritative, aggressive, liars, and slow-minded maintain that attraction because their father had that personality or their single mother used to go out with similar guys. They think that those aggressive roles are normal so they create relationships with people that maintain those authoritative traits mentioned.
Women who are attracted to men that are nice, friendly, social, courteous, respectful, romantic, passionate, and loyal maintain that attraction because their father had those qualities or their single mother used to go out with similar guys. They think those roles full of humility, love, and sensuality are normal so they create relationships with people that maintain those positive qualities.
However, the worst thing that any person can do is go out with a hostile individual and think that person will change if I do this or that… but in reality people are the same until they die… in few occasions people change in their late 30s early 40s when they learn from their mistakes.
If you like nice guys… good for you… if you like hostile men that means you had a really bad childhood and I really feel sorry for you, but you are able to change base on what you currently value in life and are able to form new relationships by interacting with people that have similar values.
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I’d like to focus on an idea talked about in an essay written by Julia Serano called “Why Nice Guys Finish Last.”
I found this quote to be very thought-provoking:
…I would argue that “nice guys” are generally read as emasculated or effeminized men in our culture. In a world where calling a man “sensitive” is viewed as a pejorative, the very act of showing respect for women often disqualifies a male from being seen as a “real man.” I believe that this is a major reason why many heterosexual women are not sexually interested in “nice guys.” -p. 238
Isn’t that interesting? And sad?
Heterosexual women always say they want to meet a nice guy who treats them with respect, but then somehow they end up dating some loser jackass who only cares about his own needs. We’ve seen this play out in movies and in real life. Our friends have done it. We’ve done it. Our single moms have done it. One may ask, “Why do guys act that way?” but it may in fact be better to ask, “Why do women allow men to act that way?”
If relationship after relationship finds you with a series of men who act like assholes, you need to ask yourself why you acquaint yourself with these men long enough to call what you have a relationship. You should ask yourself why that great guy that you’ve known forever but only see as a friend hasn’t made it on your “sexually attracted to” list. Why are the rude, moody, aggressive guys so appealing? Why are the nice, respectful, understanding guys so unappealing? Why is your idea of a “real man” not so nice of a guy?
Here’s another quote from “Why Nice Guys Finish Last”:
So long as heterosexual women are attracted to men who act like aggressors, and heterosexual men are attracted to women who act like objects, people will continue to fulfill those roles. -p. 237
If the men you chose to date as a heterosexual women (or gay man for that matter) are assholes, what do you think that nice guy who’s totally into you will think he has to do just to get you to notice him? If the only guys who seem to excite you are the ones who are emotionally unavailable and/or physically domineering, why would the sensitive, physically unthreatening guy even bother with you? What good is it to say that you want a “nice guy” when all you accept as attractive are “bad boys?”
One more quote:
Lots of women…want to create a world in which women are allowed and encouraged to be sexual without having to be nonconsensually sexualized. […] I would argue that for this to happen, we will also have to work to simultaneously ensure that men can be respectful of women without being desexualized. -p. 239
(Emphasis is the author’s.)
If what we really want is a “nice guy“, then we cannot allow ourselves to continue to date “bad boys.” Dating and/or having sex with “bad boys” sends a message to the “nice guys” that in order for us to be interested in them, they have to treat us badly. And why the heck would we want to send that message? If we keep lowering the bar on what kinds of behavior are acceptable in relationships, why would our partners have any incentive to raise it? We’re already in a relationship with them. If we let people use us; if we put ourselves in a position to be used, people will take advantage of that. But if we demand to be respectfully treated as equals, our partners will do so (and anyone who doesn’t won’t make it to a partner- status anyway).
Nice guys don’t finish last because they’re weaker. The only reason “nice guys finish last” is because we give the “bad boys” an unfair advantage. By accepting their behavior, we make it easy for them to abuse us. If certain behaviors become truly unacceptable in relationships, they will be discontinued because they no longer offer any advantage. If that guy you’ve been obsessing about hasn’t called you for a week- forget about him! Don’t allow him to be “mysterious.” Allow yourself to see that he’s not interested and find a guy who is! If what you want is a guy who’ll call you when he says he will (a “nice guy“), why would you accept someone who does the opposite (a “bad boy“)?
Let’s get smart about this. It’s about time that we realized that real men are nice guys.
~ Samantha
Wow…I agree with michellemysistahs, as soon as I read this I felt guilty…
I apologize “nice guys”!!!
# Posted By determined_MD | 2/2/10 11:04 PM | Report | Reply
good post , this from a mans point of view who in the 60′s was a shy(to the point of being paranoid) actually afraid of what girls thought of me . i was the proverbial nice guy .
i agree with what you have here:
quote:
Nice guys don’t finish last because they’re weaker. The only reason “nice guys finish last” is because we give the “bad boys” an unfair advantage. By accepting their behavior, we make it easy for them to abuse us. If certain behaviors become truly unacceptable in relationships, they will be discontinued because they no longer offer any advantage. If that guy you’ve been obsessing about hasn’t called you for a week- forget about him! Don’t allow him to be “mysterious.” Allow yourself to see that he’s not interested and find a guy who is! If what you want is a guy who’ll call you when he says he will (a “nice guy“), why would you accept someone who does the opposite (a “bad boy“)?
this is from another thread and post from a synical nice guy and the present signal or message girls/women send nice guys by there actions . which by the way may give alittle more insite into the nice guy problem . (again this guy has some good points but as said very synical and alittle angry) also i’ve included some side thoughts found in ( ).
Posted Over a year ago Views 30605 Comments 93 Category Dating
Where Did All The Nice Guys Go?
I see this question posted with some regularity in the many personals sections on the internet and what not, so I thought I’d take a minute to explain things to the ladies out there that haven’t figured it out quite yet.
What happened to all the nice guys?
The answer is simple: you did.
See, if you think back, really hard, you might vaguely remember a Platonic guy pal who always seemed to want to spend time with you. He’d tag along with you when you went shopping, stop by your place for a movie when you were lonely but didn’t feel like going out, or even sit there and hold you while you sobbed and told him about how horribly the (other) guy that you were f***ing treated you.
At the time, you probably joked with your girlfriends about how he was a little puppy dog, always following you around, trying to do things to get you to pay attention to him. They probably teased you because they thought he had a crush on you. Given that his behavior was, admittedly, a little pathetic, you vehemently denied having any romantic feelings for him, and buttressed your position by claiming that you were “just friends.” Besides, he totally wasn’t your type. I mean, he was a little too short, or too bald, or too fat, or too poor, or didn’t know how to dress himself, or basically be or do any of the things that your tall, good-looking, fit, rich, stylish boyfriend at the time pulled off with such ease.
Eventually, your Platonic buddy drifted away, as your relationship with the boyfriend got more serious and spending time with this other guy was, admittedly, a little weird, if you weren’t dating him. More time passed, and the boyfriend eventually cheated on you, or became boring, or you realized that the things that attracted you to him weren’t the kinds of things that make for a good, long-term relationship. So, now, you’re single again, and after having tried the bar scene for several months having only encountered players and douche bags, you wonder, “What happened to all the nice guys?”
Well, once again, you did.
You ignored the nice guy. You used him for emotional intimacy (tampon) without reciprocating, in kind,(how many ever tried to set up the guy pal with another girl , yah we know it isn’t you but at least try to help him knowing if you were close to him that he had no love life at all) with physical intimacy (and that doesn’t necessarily translate to having sex with him). You laughed at his consideration and resented his devotion. You valued the aloof boyfriend more than the attentive “just-a-” friend. Eventually, he took the hint and moved on with his life. He probably came to realize, one day, that women aren’t really attracted to guys who hold doors open; or make dinners just because; or buy you a Christmas gift that you mentioned, in passing, that you really wanted five months ago; or listen when you’re upset; or hold you when you cry. He came to realize that, if he wanted a woman like you, he’d have to act more like the boyfriend that you had. He probably cleaned up his look, started making some money, and generally acted like more of an asshole than he ever wanted to be.(nice guy turn jerk and it has happened girls, to alot of really sweet nice guys. there’s even, imagine this, guys that say they turned to being jerks just to get a girlfriend and it worked yet if they started showing their nice guy tendencies the girls would start loosing interest as soon as they started acting like jerks again the girls interest would return)
Fact is, now, he’s probably getting laid, and in a way, your ultimate rejection of him is to thank for that. And I’m sorry that it took the complete absence of “nice guys” in your life for you to realize that you missed them and wanted them. Most women will only have a handful of nice guys stumble into their lives, if that.
So, if you’re looking for a nice guy, here’s what you do:
1.) Build a time machine.
2.) Go back a few years and pull your head out of your ass.
3.) Take a look at what’s right in front of you and grab a hold of it.
I suppose the other possibility is that you STILL don’t really want a nice guy, but you feel the social pressure to at least appear to have matured beyond your infantile taste in men. In which case, you might be in luck, because the nice guy you claim to want has, in reality, shed his nice guy mantle and is out there looking to unleash his cynicism and resentment onto someone just like you.
If you were five years younger.
So, please: either stop misrepresenting what you want, or own up to the fact that you’ve f***ed yourself over. You’re getting older, after all. It’s time to excise the bullshit and deal with reality. You didn’t want a nice guy then, and he certainly doesn’t want you, now.
(this isn’t necessarily true there’s been many nice guys that would take the girl, however at times the nice guy does feel at times that he was just settled for as a last option. and then wonders if i’m so right for her now why wasn’t i right for her while we were teens or early twenty’s. i’m the same guy now as i was then, (the boring ,asexual,doormat,wimpy,weak, and other such adjectives that girls/women asign to the nice guy)
in all truthfulness i hope that more women read what you have here and take the article i included (with a grain of salt)
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hi! meg,
i m not a regular reader. but as i see frm an year or so, i guess more regular than u….. lolz
the discussion above, i think is not restricted to girls or guys but to the people who don’t love the respect and also don’t respect the love.
for them love is fun, and acc. to u its peace and harmony.
well i don’t consider myself a georgy type but i respect them frm the bottom of my heart.
nd also i want to say, pls be a regular visitor nd keep updating. i say it not because only i love 2 read u but bcoz i know d fact that whaterver we dream at a level of consciousness is possible only at a higher level.
so that means its sumthin u like to do, sumthin dat u actually want to work on, somthin dat gives u more peace of mind.
isn’t it? may b m wrong but……
nd i m 21 yrs, som yrs younger. can i call u sis?
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Ladies,
We also have similar dilemmas, choosing good loosing fun or chosing bad and having smth. else…
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Bad boys are a pain and thriller while Nice guys are comforting and boring.
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its not worth chasing a man who won’t appreciate you for who you are, its kinda tiring actually. i agree with u meg, there aren’t enough Georges’ out there. this is going to sound strange but its like in the animal world (yes i love animal planet) you chase your mate, fight for them, if you don’t you are left alone. guys and girls act on their ‘animal’ instinct. the brute gets the girl and the nice guy gets a friend. however what people forget is that we have been gifted with intelligence.. and humor of a level that separates us from animal behavior. not enough people recognize that when choosing their mates. i like goofballs, cheesy jokes and someone who is easy on my eyes, i don’t know many brutes like that, do you?
welcome back!
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Hello All,
It’s been a while but I’m back. Been traveling across the Atlantic, from the new world to old and picking up some god-forsaken Euro-flu along the way. It’s been a long road to recovery and I’m finally finding my way back.
So here’s a piece I started a few weeks ago, in response to Robert who commented on the “21st Century Goddesses & the Men Who Don’t Deserve Them” article. Hopefully, this story will receive Robert’s approval, providing a more positive light on men. (Robert – I do think there are some wonderful men out there, just not enough of them unfortunately.)
Anyway, I hope you all enjoy reading this and stay tuned for more.
Meg
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